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Pandora

Civilization Watch


Civilization Watch


Pages 1 2 3
...continued from page 2

Get rid of the "Zionists," and Palestine will have all the prosperity of Yemen.

Get rid of American world dominance, and where will India and China sell their goods and services? What will be the market for Taiwanese, South Korean, Chilean and Brazilian products? Even if there are markets eager to buy, how will they safely and cheaply reach those markets?

This election is, in large historical terms, almost entirely about foreign policy, no matter what the electorate is misled to believe.

And in their responses to the attack on our embassy by Egyptian government-sponsored terrorists (and Islamists the incompetent Libyan government could not control), the two candidates have made our choice very clear.

Obama stands for the continued weakening of American influence everywhere. He stands for dismantling the world order of trade and prosperity that we have sustained for 68 years.

If he prevails, it almost doesn't matter what our internal economic policies are. His foreign policy will wreck the world economy, and ours will fall with it.

Romney, on the other hand, not only promises but shows that he will be president, not of the academic/media elite, with their romantic anti-Americanism, but of the United States of America.

Romney will look after our national interest – which, because we have heretofore been shockingly generous, happens to coincide very closely with the prosperity, peace and happiness of more human beings throughout the world than have ever been prosperous, peaceful, and happy in all of human history.

It is true that America can't maintain this all alone – we require the cooperation of other free nations. But the only reason we require their cooperation is that we didn't conquer them when we could have. We left them free and independent, so they could thumb their noses at us. As long as they helped us maintain the world order.

But when thugs, and nations ruled by thugs, blow up our embassies and kill our ambassadors, we must respond with excommunication from the fellowship of nations – or we invite other nations to behave likewise.

That is the choice this November, even if most Americans don't realize it. I just hope that by voting our pocketbooks, we accidentally elect the candidate who will act in America's, and the world's, best interest.

Meanwhile, the academic/media elite are doing their best to support the Obama campaign's attempt to make us focus on how naughty it was for Romney to speak up for American interest.

Guess what: We need Romney's naughtiness the way that Europe needed Winston Churchill's naughtiness in criticizing the appeasement foreign policy of Britain and France in the 1930s which led directly to Hitler's ruinous wars of conquest.

Obama is Neville Chamberlain tripled or quadrupled, because Chamberlain at least thought he was acting for the benefit of the Britain. Obama doesn't even think he's acting to benefit America, because he doesn't think America deserves any benefits.

Obama is running for President Of The Rest Of The World.

Only Romney is running for President of the United States.

Which is why, though I am not a Republican and have no desire to become such, Romney will have my vote. Not just because of jobs. But because America needs to get rid of this whiny apologizer-in-chief and replace him with a commander-in-chief.

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  1. print email
    Apologies
    September 20, 2012 | 05:06 AM

    A tiny detail that makes all the difference - Obama's apology PRECEDED the attack by several hours. In other words, it was not a response to the attack at all. It was a response to the film alone prior to violence being involved.

    It is his carelessness with facts alone that makes me disinclined to put faith in Romney.

    Katie Andrews
  2. print email
    September 20, 2012 | 10:57 AM

    Ha ha ha....3 for 3. OSC is choosing Romney (even though he's not a Republican - something he feels the need to remind us of constantly).

    Oh and I love that he wrote this before the 47% debacle. Mr. Card could hardly have written with a (straight) face that "Romney is running for President of the United States". No OSC he's running for 53% of this country...and really of that figure only the top 1%.



  3. print email
    Apologizer-in-chief
    September 20, 2012 | 03:07 PM

    This essay is full of name-calling, misleading accusations, irrational paraphrasing, and hate. It relishes labeling Obama supporters as radical leftist elites (what, half of the nation?) in the same way that actual extreme leftists marginalize conservative opinion as racist and homophobic. What is the point? Obama's response to the recent embassy attacks has been capable and informed, as opposed to reactionary and mindlessly belligerent. This is something that, actually, most of the U.S. thinks are admirable traits. You don't make a strong case.

    Peter V
  4. print email
    September 20, 2012 | 06:27 PM

    Mr. Card,

    I am not claiming to know what President Obama should do or have done about specific foreign policy issues, nor do I know if Romney or Obama is the better person to lead our country, but as a fan of your review column I read this article and

    1) Please stop saying you are not a republican and have no desire to be one, I fail to see which set of policies you do not align with the republican party on in any of your writing.

    2) I find it funny that you criticize the President for his foreign policy experience and actions while denigrating his consultation of the "academic elite" when your background is in the arts. Aren't you just another unqualified member of the media judging foreign policy choices which you (nor I) have no real knowledge of?

    3) As a "student of history" you cite the barbarians who eventually dried up and destroyed the prosperity of the Roman Empire while saying that American Guns must protect our trade routes. However, in the "good times" the Romans had dealt with the Barbarians one of two ways, eliminating them (and not just defeating them in battle and expecting them to slink away with their heads down, but eliminating a large percentage of the population), or resettling them in Roman lands and eventually giving them Roman Citizenship.

    We, like Rome have shown we cannot fight "small wars" (Iraq, Afghanistan) except at great cost. So unless you are advocating genocide, we need to actively change these people to our side and way of life (the modern equivalent of resettling and giving citizenship). Trying to fight a war to win a point but not annihilate the country every five years will wear on us like it did on Rome and we will eventually lose.

    Diplomacy is not us telling the world what to do, but convincing the world it is the best thing to do.


    Jack
  5. print email
    Civilization Watch article
    September 20, 2012 | 06:27 PM

    Thank you for stating the obvious about Obama and historically what a great keeper of world peace we are. I'm very concerned about our ME policies. Bullies run over weakness. I detest the way O dislikes our country...it saddens me that so many people are immune to this fact. The educational system has been run by the radical, hate America hippy crowd of the 60's...a period of time when I was a teen & I deeply abhored. We need to take our country back from the so called educated elitists/media/Hollywood crowd of selfish destroyers of America. History will repeat itself if we don't heed your warning. Please keep writing & talking about this. Thanks again!

    Cec Aronson
  6. print email
    Uncomfortable
    September 21, 2012 | 02:05 AM

    This article made me uncomfortable.

    At a minor, nit-picky level (it took me several reads of the relevant paragraph before I realised that Mr Card meant that American military dominance "prevented" (not "permitted") the breakdonw he speaks of).

    And at a more substantive level (once again Mr Card trots out his "European intellectual elite" mantra - what is Mr Card's evidence that any such entity exists, let alone espouses the views he claims it does? I live in Europe, and I can confidently say that there is no such thing - in fact, there's barely such a thing as Europe, in any sense beyond the purely geographical, so to identify a Europe with sufficient coherence to have its own, monolithic intellectual elite, displays the same level of ignorance as that which President Obama is accused of in this article).

    But mostly this article makes me uncomfortable because, in spite of various flaws, it resonates as being basically true. As someone who has indulged in America-bashing in the past (hey, I bash my own country too when I feel the need), and whose personal philosophy finds much of Republican dogma utterly abhorrent, it is not nice to have to admit it, but basically Mr Card is right - when it comes to foreign policy, there is too much of the Chamberlain about Obama. However, it is devoutly to be hoped that this does not result in the usual by-product of American bi-partisanism, namely a race to the extreme opposite end of the pendulum's swing. It will be interesting to see if Mr Romney is strong enough to resist that temptation. His history of flip-flopping (not that he is the only one guilty of that) would suggest not, but let's see...

    Al
  7. print email
    September 21, 2012 | 08:05 AM

    Amen!

    Cate
  8. print email
    Euro Intellectual Elite
    September 21, 2012 | 12:23 PM

    Al -

    "And at a more substantive level (once again Mr Card trots out his "European intellectual elite" mantra - what is Mr Card's evidence that any such entity exists, let alone espouses the views he claims it does? I live in Europe, and I can confidently say that there is no such thing - in fact, there's barely such a thing as Europe, in any sense beyond the purely geographical, so to identify a Europe with sufficient coherence to have its own, monolithic intellectual elite, displays the same level of ignorance as that which President Obama is accused of in this article)."

    From a half-decade of living in Europe (France/Switz.) and participating in the intellectual community there, I can tell you that there is no ambiguity. The anti-Semitism is not subtle. Neither is the racism. Simply put - Americans have no real idea what the on-the-ground level of intolerance is.

    That's not to say that every Frenchman or German or Italian is a simmering cauldron of racial animus - but those who aren't are somewhat overwhelmed by the complete acceptance the countervailing movement enjoys.

    This movement spans the highest to the lowest segments of society.

    Prufrock
  9. print email
    Media Elite
    September 21, 2012 | 12:36 PM

    Jack:

    "I find it funny that you criticize the President for his foreign policy experience and actions while denigrating his consultation of the "academic elite" when your background is in the arts. Aren't you just another unqualified member of the media judging foreign policy choices which you (nor I) have no real knowledge of?"

    Those of us who have obtained an education in history and geopolitics through observation, study and interest are not categorically stupid or unqualified to observe and warn. Card is not a perfect observer, but I'll listen to him over a number of "pros". Credentials are nice, but are no guarantee of insight.

    One of the pros I most distrust in this arena, by the way, is our Vice President, Joe Biden. While touted as a foreign policy expert, he has never demonstrated an understanding of the world's actual workings. His proposals have been ludicrous in many cases. Disastrous, in fact.

    It reminds me of the wonderful work that the foreign-policy experts of the time made of WW1 and WW2, Vietnam, etc. Being a pro doesn't mean being right, apparently. And being a gifted amateur doesn't mean having to shut up. The real problem? The know-nothing media elites having such influence to swing policy.

    As far as your historical qualifications - your evaluation of the Pax Romana made me shake my head, and I don't consider myself anything approaching a savant on that one. Read up...

    Prufrock
  10. print email
    September 21, 2012 | 01:19 PM

    Lets see...Obama's team has included the following men Leon E. Panetta, David H. Petraeus and Robert M. Gates.

    Now where have I heard these names before? They seem very familiar.

    Can anyone help me here?

  11. print email
    European Elite
    September 21, 2012 | 02:06 PM

    Uncomforable said: "And at a more substantive level (once again Mr Card trots out his "European intellectual elite" mantra - what is Mr Card's evidence that any such entity exists"

    I think the existence of the EU, which tries to paper over national differences, or the changing demographics of many European countries despite popular resistance to such, is evidence, at least.

    Randy M
  12. print email
    stuff
    September 21, 2012 | 03:20 PM


    Scott,

    It's a shame that your mental hula-hoops have led you to these conclusions.

    Righteous anger is an intoxicant. And, you are a lifelong addict.

    Your friend

    Mike


    mike thompson
  13. print email
    September 22, 2012 | 08:27 AM

    I'm still confused about Obama "apologizing" regarding Libya. "The United States condemns in the strongest terms this outrageous and shocking attack" is an apology? "Make no mistake, we will... bring to justice the killers who attacked our people... there is absolutely no justification to this type of senseless violence. None. The world must stand together to unequivocally reject these brutal acts." This... does not sound apologetic.

    There's the apology the Embassy issued significantly PRIOR to the attack as an exercise in diplomacy. I don't detect an apology in Obama's words here, though. "Make no mistake. Justice will be done."

    It is this looseness with fact-checking that makes me disinclined to trust Romney. There is enough argument over disputable and/or complex issues; if we begin to create different sets of basic facts, good-faith discussion will die forever.

    Katie Andrews
  14. print email
    Article
    September 22, 2012 | 12:13 PM

    Yes, it is time OSC comes out of the closet and admit to being a Republican ; - ). He is more Republican than I am. -- And I'm a registered Republican! But I really like OSC and love his writings and so I take it, simply, as his concern to help out the other side -- the Democrats, of which there exist many decent ones.

    The only fear I have of Mitt Romney as President is: Will he use the Presidency to advance the agenda of the Church. If Romney will properly allay that fear, then I will vote for Romney.

    Jim Baugh
  15. print email
    EU Must Be Joking!
    September 23, 2012 | 10:08 AM

    Randy - are you seriously saying that the existence of the EU is evidence of some pan-European intellectual elite? Really?! Quite apart from the more serious responses (for example, about how the EU's evolution shows exactly how pan-European it is NOT, or how as an institution it singularly fails to achieve consensus on material issues), I just can't think of anyone who knows anything about the EU who would honestly describe them as an "intellectual elite". It's just an oxymoron.

    Al
  16. print email
    Card Article
    September 23, 2012 | 10:13 PM

    "If we had a president who understood or cared about the interests of the United States, the response to a government-sponsored attack on our embassy in Egypt would have been, at the very least, an immediate freeze on all Egyptian and Libyan funds in the United States, the cancellation of all shipments of military and nonmilitary aid to Egypt, the recall of our embassies and consulates from both countries, and the announcement that all Americans were to leave both countries at once."

    Card is speaking of two newly-formed governments, two places in which revolutions have just occurred, Revolutions that we have ASSISTED. It is simply wrong to imagine a nation, the wealthiest nation in the world, backing out, throwing up its hands, playing the whiny toddler and saying "Well, you hurt us a little so now it's up to you - good luck." Egypt is a nation with an enormous hand in the energy industry, and even more importantly, an immeasurable influence in the fate of our ally, Israel. Should Egypt give the word, Israel is done. If you look at history, Egypt is the single Middle-Eastern country that stepped in a few decades ago and said "Listen, I think we can be allies with Israel because 1. There's no good reason to fight and 2. There are good reasons, namely trade and an alliance with the United States, TO be allies with Israel." Since that time, every country surrounding Egypt, including Iran, Iraq, and most powerful, Saudi Arabia, has pressured Egypt to give up its alliance and allow those countries to destroy Israel and establish Palestine. If we were to abandon Egypt, Egypt would abandon us, abandon Israel, and abandon any control over the Middle East. Total chaos would break out and we might face World War III. I do not think that is a foreign policy stance.

    Please actually look at Mitt Romney's response to Obama's recent Libya policy for yourself. Look at what he said when protests in Libya were first revealed, and then look at what he said when the ambassador was killed. Also, so you don't think that somehow the media likes Obama (which it doesn't, it hates and pans him all the time), please look at the media response to Obama's original invasion in Libya. Before he sent any troops, the media said "It's a disaster in Libya, and Barack Obama is too wimpy to send anyone over there to fight and help out." They said "Libya is a valuable source of oil and a newly established government, and the fact that our President isn't ballsy enough to send any men says a lot about his failings in foreign policy." So guess what he did? He sent men into Libya. When he did, the media had a revelation. "How could he?!" they said. "When have any American lives been worth a fight in Libya? We're not even allies! What do they need OUR help and OUR resources for? That Barack Obama would spend lives, time, and money on Libya says a lot about his failings in foreign policy."

    Card writes, "Remember that the main concern of the academic/media elite of the US after 9/11 was never to identify themselves with the American flag if they could help it, never to rerun the footage of the collapsing towers in order not to "inflame" public opinion, and to regard American actions as the "cause" of the "outrage" of the oppressed people of other nations, who were thus completely justified in hating the US.

    These are Obama's people. They're faintly embarrassed to admit they're Americans. Mrs. Obama felt that her husband's election was the first time she could be proud of America â€" and the academic/media elite completely agreed with her.

    These people don't like America. They're ashamed of America. And Obama is their creature."

    This is entirely offensive, and so untrue I don't even have words. Orson Scott Card does not have his facts right. Please check them for yourself. I don't know where he created these views from, but they're entirely wrong. Find me one person in the Obama White House who's embarrassed to admit he's an American. Obama is the most American President we've ever had. He represents American values, he represents equality and peace and generosity and a spirit defined by working together. Since when did this world, or this country for that matter, become about every man for himself? When did we decide that America would stride forward past all other nations because, when it comes right down to it, who cares about everybody else? What kind of way is that to run a government? I'm sorry, but Card is just incorrect. Purely incorrect.

    "They hate America's tradition as a Christian nation â€" because they hate Christianity."

    FREEDOM OF RELIGION, HELLO? I'm pretty sure that's in our Constitution. Now, the Constitution is America's tradition -- NOTHING else. Not one religion, not one sexual preference, not one race. Nothing. Just the Constitution, where our rights in this nation are laid out for us. I'm sorry, but I don't live in a Christian nation. I live in a nation where I don't expect everyone to be Christian, and I don't feel at all bad for being Jewish.

    "He promises Putin that when he's reelected, he can be more helpful to Russia's plans for dominating their portion of the world.

    He expresses his envy of the Chinese government, which doesn't have to put up with the interference of an opposition party."

    FIND THIS. Find me where Obama said these things. And then I'll believe them. Until then, they are absolutely the most absurd statements I have ever read. ENVY of the Chinese government? So we're back to calling Obama a communist? Good, I didn't have enough of that in '08.

    This is the most ridiculous diatribe I have ever read.

    Jake Smith
  17. print email
    Card Article
    September 23, 2012 | 10:19 PM

    "If we had a president who understood or cared about the interests of the United States, the response to a government-sponsored attack on our embassy in Egypt would have been, at the very least, an immediate freeze on all Egyptian and Libyan funds in the United States, the cancellation of all shipments of military and nonmilitary aid to Egypt, the recall of our embassies and consulates from both countries, and the announcement that all Americans were to leave both countries at once."

    Card is speaking of two newly-formed governments, two places in which revolutions have just occurred, Revolutions that we have ASSISTED. It is simply wrong to imagine a nation, the wealthiest nation in the world, backing out, throwing up its hands, playing the whiny toddler and saying "Well, you hurt us a little so now it's up to you - good luck." Egypt is a nation with an enormous hand in the energy industry, and even more importantly, an immeasurable influence in the fate of our ally, Israel. Should Egypt give the word, Israel is done. If you look at history, Egypt is the single Middle-Eastern country that stepped in a few decades ago and said "Listen, I think we can be allies with Israel because 1. There's no good reason to fight and 2. There are good reasons, namely trade and an alliance with the United States, TO be allies with Israel." Since that time, every country surrounding Egypt, including Iran, Iraq, and most powerful, Saudi Arabia, has pressured Egypt to give up its alliance and allow those countries to destroy Israel and establish Palestine. If we were to abandon Egypt, Egypt would abandon us, abandon Israel, and abandon any control over the Middle East. Total chaos would break out and we might face World War III. I do not think that is a foreign policy stance.

    Please actually look at Mitt Romney's response to Obama's recent Libya policy for yourself. Look at what he said when protests in Libya were first revealed, and then look at what he said when the ambassador was killed. Also, so you don't think that somehow the media likes Obama (which it doesn't, it hates and pans him all the time), please look at the media response to Obama's original invasion in Libya. Before he sent any troops, the media said "It's a disaster in Libya, and Barack Obama is too wimpy to send anyone over there to fight and help out." They said "Libya is a valuable source of oil and a newly established government, and the fact that our President isn't ballsy enough to send any men says a lot about his failings in foreign policy." So guess what he did? He sent men into Libya. When he did, the media had a revelation. "How could he?!" they said. "When have any American lives been worth a fight in Libya? We're not even allies! What do they need OUR help and OUR resources for? That Barack Obama would spend lives, time, and money on Libya says a lot about his failings in foreign policy."

    Card writes, "Remember that the main concern of the academic/media elite of the US after 9/11 was never to identify themselves with the American flag if they could help it, never to rerun the footage of the collapsing towers in order not to "inflame" public opinion, and to regard American actions as the "cause" of the "outrage" of the oppressed people of other nations, who were thus completely justified in hating the US.

    These are Obama's people. They're faintly embarrassed to admit they're Americans. Mrs. Obama felt that her husband's election was the first time she could be proud of America â€" and the academic/media elite completely agreed with her.

    These people don't like America. They're ashamed of America. And Obama is their creature."

    This is entirely offensive, and so untrue I don't even have words. Orson Scott Card does not have his facts right. Please check them for yourself. I don't know where he created these views from, but they're entirely wrong. Find me one person in the Obama White House who's embarrassed to admit he's an American. Obama is the most American President we've ever had. He represents American values, he represents equality and peace and generosity and a spirit defined by working together. Since when did this world, or this country for that matter, become about every man for himself? When did we decide that America would stride forward past all other nations because, when it comes right down to it, who cares about everybody else? What kind of way is that to run a government? I'm sorry, but Card is just incorrect. Purely incorrect.

    "They hate America's tradition as a Christian nation â€" because they hate Christianity."

    FREEDOM OF RELIGION, HELLO? I'm pretty sure that's in our Constitution. Now, the Constitution is America's tradition -- NOTHING else. Not one religion, not one sexual preference, not one race. Nothing. Just the Constitution, where our rights in this nation are laid out for us. I'm sorry, but I don't live in a Christian nation. I live in a nation where I don't expect everyone to be Christian, and I don't feel at all bad for being Jewish.

    "He promises Putin that when he's reelected, he can be more helpful to Russia's plans for dominating their portion of the world.

    He expresses his envy of the Chinese government, which doesn't have to put up with the interference of an opposition party."

    FIND THIS. Find me where Obama said these things. And then I'll believe them. Until then, they are absolutely the most absurd statements I have ever read. ENVY of the Chinese government? So we're back to calling Obama a communist? Good, I didn't have enough of that in '08.

    This is the most ridiculous diatribe I have ever read.

    Jake Smith
  18. print email
    September 24, 2012 | 01:17 PM

    Why is it that I have twice tried to post pointing out that Obama DIDN'T apologize for America - once with quotes from the actual response speech - but both times my post has failed to make it to the board? This was on Thursday and on Saturday. I assumed technical difficulties the first time, but now I'm getting paranoid about how the Rhino Times chooses to screen its comments.

    Katie Andrews
  19. print email
    Missing the point
    September 24, 2012 | 05:30 PM

    Folks. Seriously. The point of the essay is that (a) American strength has been a huge boon to the world and (b) Obama is undermining it.

    Can anyone really argue successfully against those points?

    No.

    We have seen how Obama has approached international issues. And we've seen how the media is trying to spin his actions.

    The question is: How will Romney approach these same issues?

    Let me suggest you read Romney's book NO APOLOGY: THE CASE FOR AMERICAN GREATNESS.

    This is a book that should be mandatory reading for anyone trying to decide who to vote for in this election. NOT because it's going to present persuasive arguments, which it does, but because it reveals Romney's values and beliefs. They are all laid bare.

    You'll get more insight into Romney reading this than you will in watching hours of "debate" or 30 second ads. Then you can decide whether you agree with where he's coming from or not.

    You might also want to read this recent LA Times piece: http://articles.latimes.com/2012/sep/21/nation/la-na-mormon-conservatism-20120921 which is one of the few that actually sheds some insight into Romney's thinking.

    As for Card being a Democrat, he's only explained it like a 100 times. Neither party is static. The Democrats of the 1960's, the Daniel Patrick Moynihan types (Democratic senator from NY from 77-01), are becoming scarce. And this is precisely the type of Democrat Card is. What you think all Democrats clones? If so, you don't know the party. Alas for Card, his party moved in a different direction.

    Alas for me, many in my party, the Republican party, are moving into some territory I don't agree with. We have a different party now than we did in Reagan's days. My post "Conservative Republican Amnesia" discusses this: http://johndbrown.com/2011/12/conservative-republican-amnesia/

    John Brown
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